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GhostsandMore · 07-31-2010, 06:44 AM

Hi Fiona, just responded to your message!

Thanks for adding us to your favourites. It's amazing how the site has grown recently. Few changes in the team to be made (possibility of merging with another team and becoming self-supported).

You have the right idea that some, if not all, is being tainted with false information. After all, the "spirit" could pose as someone he or she isn't. In the report we had one come through saying he was God. Something tells me that an ouija board isn't the chosen method for the Lord, so as it came after something claiming to be the anti-christ, you could tell they were playing with us.

With the number of people using, I guess a minimum of two would provide the energy. if you use one alone then I guess things could happen. I have never tried it. Usually they say don't do them alone to make sure you don't come to any harm. Also another person could provide that rational mind to explain what is going on and provide support. Usually I use them with 3 or more other people and on a board that is wooden, upturned glass and large enough that the team can visibly see the letters. It also creates more space so the letters can clearly be distinguished. Plus, the more people there, the more people that can back up your claim if something does happen. It is also wise to have someone sit out and record the messages/film/take photos.

Hope that helps!

UglyNRude · (This post was last modified: 07-31-2010 06:45 AM by UglyNRude.)

View this video and you'll get the real answers.

The problem is people believe so much they are blind to the truth.

GhostsandMore · 07-31-2010, 06:59 AM

Thanks for the post UnR.

I have an issue to the ideomotor effect from my own experiences. Technically if these subconscious movements happen all the time, technically the glass should always be active and possess the same attributes. I am not saying it isn't the cause, but there are just a few inconsistencies. Sometimes we can be sat there for over an hour and get no movement, when other times the same people can get full speed glass movements and the glass stopping instantly over a letter (sometimes with such force it throws a few fingers off the glass!)

Playing devil's advocate here (as my researching experiments in to them is still ongoing), what if the spirits channelled through the participants? This would perhaps mean the "spirit" could influence the small subconscious movements and therefore manipulate the glass in a way that enables it to communicate.

I am a scientist and would love to find out the real cause. It is more than likely that it is just science at work, but some of the resulting experiences I've had makes me question that.

I'll definitely try the cards on top of the glass on some experiments though (as hopefully that will see who is most likely to be pushing it) and then slowly see who has the least influence on the glass and see what the results end up like then.

But an interesting post nonetheless UnR! Thanks again!

UglyNRude · 07-31-2010, 07:07 AM

As I stated before those who WANT to get answers will, it doesn't matter how many times its proven to be in your mind.

I have to laugh at the your a scientist, I can look at your web page and see the orbs, looks real scientific to me. I also look at your investigations and I will say I feel sorry for your clients. Paranormal has never been proven but you find it all the time with .... scientific methods, ouija boards, seances, Once again looks scientific to me. You go to every investigation expecting to find paranormal and you do while others go looking for answers and find the real causes.

**Fiona** · (This post was last modified: 07-31-2010 08:53 AM by Fiona.)

(07-31-2010 07:07 AM)UglyNRude Wrote: As I stated before those who WANT to get answers will, it doesn't matter how many times its proven to be in your mind.

I have to laugh at the your a scientist, I can look at your web page and see the orbs, looks real scientific to me. I also look at your investigations and I will say I feel sorry for your clients.

I agree with a lot of what you say normally, Ugly, but I think it's a little unfair to say GhostsandMore is laughable. How he or she approaches the paranormal and the investigations are the groups choice. Some of the photos on the web site are really quite unusual to say the least. There are plenty of people who believe some orbs captured on film are paranormal. And there are people who believe that if the little spasms in our fingers are the cause of ouija board movements, then why aren't these glasses flying around all of the time and not only some of the time?

Why do some of these accidental movements give us information that later turns out to be true after research, and other times it moves merely an inch or not at all?

I'm all for being logical and rational and arguing for sound reason but what you said sounded really dismissive as if nothing GhostsandMore says could be valued simply because of the use of Ouija Boards and seances.

GhostsandMore - I replied to your PM. Thanks for getting back to me!

I had to laugh at the spirit who announced itself as the Lord! Wouldn't that be an amazing one to communicate with? LOL.

I thought you raised an excellent point, by the way: If people are the cause of the movements on Ouija Boards, then why aren't the movements similar at each session rather than fast and violent movements one moment and then no movement the next? It's quite interesting.

UglyNRude · 07-31-2010, 12:32 PM

Ok now this is to the scientist about their Ouija board work, What type data are you collecting? Are you charting your results? Now I only read a few of your investigations and one red flag that jumped out at me immediately was when you switched people on the planchette how much more aggressive the movement became, did the spirit you were communicating change also to become more aggressive,,, or ... possibly seeing it changed when people switched that THEY influenced the movement? Do you keep track of every session and results by users? This may yield a scientific answer in if people influence the result. With enough collected data you should show patterns. This can help you debunk the board altogether ... or if certain people always achieve better results in communicating it would show you who should be used on the Planchette.

Now I'm not a scientist I'm just a problem solver with years of experience in SPC and paranormal. I also apologize for being so .... my name earlier.

There'sNoQ · 07-31-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:Playing devil's advocate here (as my researching experiments in to them is still ongoing), what if the spirits channelled through the participants? This would perhaps mean the "spirit" could influence the small subconscious movements and therefore manipulate the glass in a way that enables it to communicate.

This is the standard "hybrid" explanation that most people that believe in spirits but also acknowledge the ideomotor effect favor, and is also the same used for automatic writing in some cases. Also, the experiment with the cardboard discs and such and new ones I always found telling.

Quote:If people are the cause of the movements on Ouija Boards, then why aren't the movements similar at each session rather than fast and violent movements one moment and then no movement the next? It's quite interesting.

If it is the same people, they tend to be, if the people are in a similar mindset. But overall, that is like saying, why isn't every game of Monopoly the same? Why isn't every discussion about the weather the same - things always veer off in different directions because we are changing, dynamic beings with millions of flitting interests, firing synapses, things we've just learned, anxieties, things on our minds, things we're all excited and enthusiastic about. Some regular users to tend to get "guides" or "controls", certain "spirits" or other recurring board personalities that reappear to communicate, either for the group or particular individuals.

Quote:Now I only read a few of your investigations and one red flag that jumped out at me immediately was when you switched people on the planchette how much more aggressive the movement became, did the spirit you were communicating change also to become more aggressive,,, or ... possibly seeing it changed when people switched that THEY influenced the movement? Do you keep track of every session and results by users? This may yield a scientific answer in if people influence the result. With enough collected data you should show patterns. This can help you debunk the board altogether ... or if certain people always achieve better results in communicating it would show you who should be used on the Planchette.

This is true - if you're really recording this, obviously keeping track of exactly who was using the board when you got which results is an obviously major detail which you probably are doing. In our group, I found that our different members tended to be "better" at it than others, ie, the communication would be much faster and stronger and more certain, plus there were hints of personality and senses of humor, that were not there when others used it. When everyone was tipsy, the guides were tipsy.

Big Chief · 07-31-2010, 10:06 PM

Actually, the item you use as a planchette may be to heavy for a spirit to move. Some people use glass cups and get no response and when they use a lighter item they get a response but sometimes slow. Different people have different energy around them, that's why the board works better for some people and not others. Some spirits are weak and others are strong just like in life with humans. Some spirits may move the planchette faster than others in the same session. Its your energy and there's that they're using to move the planchette. Try to use lighter objects as a "planchette" if you want better results. You can even use paper as a planchette and have the spirit move it without you touching the board or paper. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRC62qy_fY

UglyNRude · 07-31-2010, 11:07 PM

Ok the first thing I notice is every time the paper moved it moved away from the people. So it screams they were blowing it. If it had moved in random directions it would of been at least slightly believable.

**scarygirl67** · 07-31-2010, 11:20 PM

I maintain what I have said about things found on Youtube. Anyone can put anything up there. It is not a reliable source for information. If you're looking for an old documentary or something, that's one thing. But these homemade videos are in truckloads over there, and they all say they're true. Nothing I've seen on there has convinced me of anything.

Something I THOUGHT convinced me about the Ouija board was something that happened when I was a child. I still don't know exactly what happened there, but I do know that it is more than possible it was a coincidence that I attributed to the board.

This is something that I think falls in the category of "if you have any doubt, leave it alone". Mainly because that doubt in and of itself is going to cause the brain to go into overdrive looking for patterns of anything that can be construed as paranormal. A light bulb burns out...automatically it's a message. A door sticks...and it is a spirit trying to trap you. A run of bad luck happens...and it's the board's fault.

So I guess the worst that can happen is the worst you let happen.