What about those who "die" but see nothing?

[Fiona]

I've read the link to the article, and it was interesting. Basically, it's about studies being done to understand how to define the moment we die, and also to understand if our consciousness exists after the moment of death. It seems to me that if we know conciousness can go on (as reported in patients who "died" but came back and were able to inform medical staff of having watched everything going on outside of their body etc) that it can give us believers in life-after-death some more substance to our belief.

Maybe scientists believe that this consciousness might only exist for minutes, or hours, after clinical death..... But we don't know yet, do we? Perhaps it goes on forever- and there we enter the realm of spirits.

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Here is some information i gathered on NDEs for anyone interested....

All brains, regardless of where in the world they come from, die in the same way, say the skeptics. And that is why all NDEs have essential core elements which are the same. It is not because the dying person is traveling toward a beautiful afterlife, but because the neurotransmitters in the brain are shutting down and creating the same lovely illusions for all who are near-death.

But why? Why should the dying brain do this, if it is just a highly sophisticated lump of tissue? That question is one of the most fundamental questions in the whole of human thinking. It boils down to asking, are we individuals with "personalities" and "souls" and "minds" that are exclusive to us? Or are we simply bodies controlled by very clever computers, or brains, each of which works a little differently from the rest, thus making each of us unique, just as an Apple computer is different from an IBM, although there are far more similarities between them than there are differences?

If there is no afterlife, and NDEs are just the last throw of a fevered and dying brain, why does it bother? If everything, including the soul and personality, is going to dust and ashes, why does the brain lay on this last wonderful floor show for people near-death, or facing actual death, who relax into peacefulness and describe their wonderful visions?

If NDEs are just a hallucination, why do a great many people report being told, "Your mission has not been completed," or, "The time for your death is not yet," during their NDE? If NDEs are just hallucinations, how can so many people be told the same thing in their hallucinations? Isn't it odd that so many people are being told the same thing? Are they all hallucinating identical responses? For many people, it is easier to believe that NDEs are a real afterlife experience and not mass hallucination

Scientists that believe NDEs are one day going to be explained by brain functions have suggested that the dying secrete endorphins, hormones which act on the central nervous system to suppress pain and which are known to create the "runner's high", which happens when long-distance runners go through a pain barrier and find themselves running with ease and without tiredness, and with a feeling of elation. But endorphins are not hallucinogens and cannot re-create a state similar to NDEs, so although they may be involved in the process as a painkiller, they are not responsible for the whole experience.

[jadewik]

IndianGirl's comment reminds me of "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" by Ambrose Bierce. Interestingly enough, it was such an odd story there was a Twilight Zone episode based on the story... in which there were no speaking parts.

Well, it is said that life "flashes before your eyes" in the moments before death...

[LouLu]

It makes zero sense for the brain to prepare 'us' - as if there is a difference in the materialistic, reductionist view between brain and self - anyway, it make no sense for the brain to jump through all these hoops so that, what, we feel 'relieved' or not scared when we're about to kick the bucket? Why? What scientific, evolutionary purpose would it serve to have the brain make us feel good when we're going to be dead in 30 seconds? Guess what - if there was 'nothing' we'd experience 'nothing' and just freakin' die! Like the brain wants 'us' to feel good right before we die just so that we can....die? It's so obviously silly that I can't believe anyone with abstract thinking would buy it. From their own (narrow minded reductionists) critieria it doesn't make sense.

[beauseant]

I had an NDE in 2004.

Don't know if this means anything or not, but I "saw" nothing.....only darkness. I did, however, talk with someone. I could not see them, but they spoke to me.....

BTW, despite the darkness, I was very very happy where I was, very peacful.....all my life, I have had no fear of the darkness, like some people do. Lucky for me.


So, my NDE was weird in that I could see nothing, only hear voices. The disembodied voice in the darkness, and also the nurses. I could hear them talking to me.


BTW.....I also have not had the great love for life that others who've had NDE's mention upon their return here. If anything, having always felt unhappy with life in general, and having short bouts of depression....since my return, it's been worse.

[scarygirl67]

Are you able to talk about it with anyone, beausant? I know you said you and your son connect very well...and does it help any to talk about it?

I understand bouts of depression very well, along with a general unhappiness for life. I still struggle with it...but taking some steps to open up here helped a lot. I can tell by your writing that you express yourself very well with words...I'm guessing it is easier for you to write out your thoughts rather than verbalize them. I'm glad you chose to do so here...I'm inspired by a lot of what you post!

Back to NDE's....I know that each person's experience is different. I'm going to wager that is because every PERSON is different...and therefore, they experience it differently.

[Lady Kamae]

I think why some people experience nothing is a very simple one. Your body has given out...you are near death, but your spirit has not served it's time or purposes on Earth yet...therefore it isn't God's time for you to die. God has taken steps to not reveal too much to us, we are his people and we are left to seek our own answers, truths and beliefs.

God doesn't open up a bix box of understanding to us when our bodies are giving up...he opens that only when our spirits are learning, growing and evolving to become ever more like Him.

Some things in this life we are in fact meant to see with our eyes closed...

[beauseant]

Thank you SO much for your kind words, scarygirl!

I'm not really "big" on discussion forums in general. I have trouble connecting to the people in my everyday life, so coming on a discussion forum and talking to people I don't know doesn't usually work well for me. If I can't connect to the people I know, I certainly won't be able to connect to people on the internet....USUALLY, is the key word. This forum has been surprisingly different. There are a few certain people here who I have very good "vibes" about. YOU are one of them.

How can one feel vibes through just words on the internet? I don't know for sure.....but I can. Sometimes.

I can feel what the person was thinking or feeling when they wrote the post sometimes.... and that is what works against me for certain threads like the demon Amazu or the I'm in Love with a demon thread....because i don't feel the persons fear or desperation, it leaves me feeling that they are not telling the truth. I try to say," hey..that's not proof they are playing games with us" or "just because you don't "feel" they are telling the truth doesn't mean they aren't"....but what else can one do but go with their "intuition"?

Ok, a bit off track here...sorry, just wanted to say that some posters on this forum leave me with positive "vibes", for lack of a better word.....

Back to the NDE:

Well....I like what LK said. Some things are meant to be seen with our eyes closed. That's very inspiring.

I always wondered why I didn't see the white light....

I worried it was because I was going in the wrong direction...literally. Or that God had abandoned me....

but there was someone there. He was comforting and talked to me ... and told me I had to come back ... for my son (who was 15) , because he was here. We are inseperable.

This person was not God, nor did I ever believe it was God. I couldn't see him, so I can't say he was anyone I knew who had passed on or not....I doubt it because I don't have any family members who were men who have passed on.

He could not have been from this lifetime....

Since the NDE, I have been rather more depressed and disconnected than before, so it did not leave me with positive consequences. I am not like those who come back with some great love for life..... *sigh*