Giving advice on demons

[Thundermane]

(01-25-2010 06:12 PM)Haunted Lady Wrote:  

(01-25-2010 05:28 PM)WitchMom78 Wrote:  

(01-24-2010 07:33 PM)UglyNRude Wrote:  Here is a problem I see lately, while we can tell people to seek medical help which should lead to a battery of tests. People would rather say they have a demon then to be labeled with a neurological issue.

I agree with UNR

I don't agree with UNR.

In my experience in ministry people would much rather be mentally ill than entertain for even a moment the thought that they are dealing with a demon.

Having medical and/or psychological tests for easily managable disorders is a much easier pill to swallow. (No pun intended)

There is this thing with it. Some people will do just about anything to deny the fact they got a mental issue. (To put it in a rough way )
In fact, pretty much anyone with a mental issue will deny it at start.
It is more plausible that all "demons" are just generated by your brains.
You have no idea what things your brains can show.
It is widely known Schizophrenia can show you images of demons.
Don't underestimate how real something will seem when you got schizophrenia. I would say bruices and scratches by demons and ghosts are more likely to be some mental stigmata effect, rather than it being real ghosts or demons. Pretty much anything can be defined by something psychological. Or just logical, for that matter. Myself, I got a friend who claims to see demons and angry spirits. I respect him, and that it may actually be true. However I also had a grandmother and a friend with Schizophrenia, and they felt they experience(d) very real demon encounters. My grandmother died. But the last half year alive she was sane, because she finally had medication.
But I know it is definitely more plausible now, that demons = Made by your own mind.

[Graveyard Hound]

I made some calls to some "men and women" of the "cloth", one I knw well, ask me if i had been mmessing with my "witch board" again? After she finished laughing, she ask why I was ccurious,saying I knew about about demons as anyone she knew, though she knows I am not really curious about them and just know to leave them alone. If I needed advice on them, ask a minister/priest/ or any other religious figure that would take me serious. I was informed there were so many books dealing with demons that any decent bookstore or library, should have more than enough books, if I was in the mood to spend time reading. I had lots of questions, more academic than factual, to which she said, "just go and look it up" and believe about only half of what I read.

[libertybobon]

There is this thing with it. Some people will do just about anything to deny the fact they got a mental issue. (To put it in a rough way )
In fact, pretty much anyone with a mental issue will deny it at start.
It is more plausible that all "demons" are just generated by your brains.
You have no idea what things your brains can show.
It is widely known Schizophrenia can show you images of demons.
Don't underestimate how real something will seem when you got schizophrenia. I would say bruices and scratches by demons and ghosts are more likely to be some mental stigmata effect, rather than it being real ghosts or demons. Pretty much anything can be defined by something psychological. Or just logical, for that matter. Myself, I got a friend who claims to see demons and angry spirits. I respect him, and that it may actually be true. However I also had a grandmother and a friend with Schizophrenia, and they felt they experience(d) very real demon encounters. My grandmother died. But the last half year alive she was sane, because she finally had medication.
But I know it is definitely more plausible now, that demons = Made by your own mind.
[/quote]

I agree 100%: that the most reasonable first cause-response to something seemingly "demonic" (including those things that are "real" to that person) is some brain oddity, illness, etc.

And so, as has been stated before, such a person needs comfort, simple advice etc, and if the situation becomes worse, then medical help should be sought. We cannot know for sure if something is physical or spiritual. Best let the physical be dealt with first. There are rare situations, however, where the physical and mental-health solutions simply break down, and any guess by the doctor/scientist during this time becomes no more realistic, logical, or helpful than some priest or psychic estimation. When a situation reaches that stage, though it is still likely that everything is being caused by some brain oddity, the ancient mythology, or even biblical demonology starts to make a lot of sense. Some, including myself, have at this point been entirely cured, restored, some would say almost in a miraculous way, through this method dealing with things that "don't exist." It is also possible, honestly, that still all of this, including the restoration, is simply caused by the extraordinary unknown powers of the brain. It is truly possible.

But when voices, lights, moving objects, sounds, are seen by those other than the "mentally-ill," removing the subjective into the objective, when that mentally-ill person does things that should not be humanly possible (and I am not thinking of super strength like a mother has for a wounded child,) and it is witnessed by others, the "everything is material and there is no spiritual" paradigm starts to come into question. Even then, it is still possible that all this is some brain-event, some happening of the evolutionary unknown, some mentally-inspired kinetic power, etc., but it then becomes no more than pseudoscience, and offers nothing a priest or pastor or psychic does not already offer.

Scientific merges with and touches the spiritual. But there does come a point, as I had to experience myself, after being examined, tested, and investigated by a few of the best doctors/psychs/neurologists in the U.S. (though they too, could all be misinformed, wrong, etc. as has happened throughout history,) where dealing with what is going on via an older, more spiritual method, makes a lot of sense. It also can work, beyond belief.

[kordo]

Most of the demons we perceive are those in our own head.
Reference: Jesus and the man with the LEGION inside him. The Legion is the legion of "I". There is not one but many egos, each calling itself "I". No man can say "I am" but instead "we are".

Usually these egos are silent when not active. But in extreme cases they can be activated simultaneously and then there will pain and caos in your head because one ego wants one thing and another one wants something else. These egos will become your demons.

When one dies, the borders of conciousness will change and the person will be able to perceive all egos at once. This will be the worst nightmare.

To get rid of your demons you have to start from the egos of psychological side. They need to be destroyed without mercy.

[Harry1941]

"Demons" means evil cravings that come from materialistic loves. This is because in hell, anyone who has these cravings is called a demon. People in this world who have these cravings also become demons after death. Further, there is a connection between demons and these kinds of people; for we are all connected with spirits as to our emotions--so much so that they make one. From this we can see that worshiping demons means indulging in these cravings because we love them.

Harry

[Thundermane]

(01-29-2010 12:32 PM)libertybobon Wrote:  There is this thing with it. Some people will do just about anything to deny the fact they got a mental issue. (To put it in a rough way )
In fact, pretty much anyone with a mental issue will deny it at start.
It is more plausible that all "demons" are just generated by your brains.
You have no idea what things your brains can show.
It is widely known Schizophrenia can show you images of demons.
Don't underestimate how real something will seem when you got schizophrenia. I would say bruices and scratches by demons and ghosts are more likely to be some mental stigmata effect, rather than it being real ghosts or demons. Pretty much anything can be defined by something psychological. Or just logical, for that matter. Myself, I got a friend who claims to see demons and angry spirits. I respect him, and that it may actually be true. However I also had a grandmother and a friend with Schizophrenia, and they felt they experience(d) very real demon encounters. My grandmother died. But the last half year alive she was sane, because she finally had medication.
But I know it is definitely more plausible now, that demons = Made by your own mind.

I agree 100%: that the most reasonable first cause-response to something seemingly "demonic" (including those things that are "real" to that person) is some brain oddity, illness, etc.

And so, as has been stated before, such a person needs comfort, simple advice etc, and if the situation becomes worse, then medical help should be sought. We cannot know for sure if something is physical or spiritual. Best let the physical be dealt with first. There are rare situations, however, where the physical and mental-health solutions simply break down, and any guess by the doctor/scientist during this time becomes no more realistic, logical, or helpful than some priest or psychic estimation. When a situation reaches that stage, though it is still likely that everything is being caused by some brain oddity, the ancient mythology, or even biblical demonology starts to make a lot of sense. Some, including myself, have at this point been entirely cured, restored, some would say almost in a miraculous way, through this method dealing with things that "don't exist." It is also possible, honestly, that still all of this, including the restoration, is simply caused by the extraordinary unknown powers of the brain. It is truly possible.

But when voices, lights, moving objects, sounds, are seen by those other than the "mentally-ill," removing the subjective into the objective, when that mentally-ill person does things that should not be humanly possible (and I am not thinking of super strength like a mother has for a wounded child,) and it is witnessed by others, the "everything is material and there is no spiritual" paradigm starts to come into question. Even then, it is still possible that all this is some brain-event, some happening of the evolutionary unknown, some mentally-inspired kinetic power, etc., but it then becomes no more than pseudoscience, and offers nothing a priest or pastor or psychic does not already offer.

Scientific merges with and touches the spiritual. But there does come a point, as I had to experience myself, after being examined, tested, and investigated by a few of the best doctors/psychs/neurologists in the U.S. (though they too, could all be misinformed, wrong, etc. as has happened throughout history,) where dealing with what is going on via an older, more spiritual method, makes a lot of sense. It also can work, beyond belief.
[/quote]

I don't believe everything is material, however I do believe that the average idea of what those paranormal experiences are, that they are wrong or twisted.
Spirituality has a huge range of mysterious, undefined phenomena. That same reason makes me think you should consider every possibility instead of making conclusions already. Would a demon really be the demon as the way we think of it? I don't think any of this is easily comprehensable. And what we can't comprehend, we can't make conclusions about. The only conclusion you can make of that what you don't know is that you don't know.
The thing is that people really want things to be true, the power of suggestion kicks in. We want to understand... We want the power to understand. Because if you understand, it means you can do something with it or about it.
A demonic appearance is very threatening, so we want to fight against it.
Also the "we want things to be true" part brings me to another theory which could smash demonic experiences.
Perhaps, our mind really is that powerfull, to make true manifestations of a happening. That those demonic sightings come together with YOU manifesting it's appearence, with all the breaking of stuff as well. So it might COME out of your mind, instead of it being a individual entity with free will. This is just a theory of course. But as I like having a lot of perspectives, this may be just as true as demons or God, or it all being just your mind making it up.

[GypsyMoon]

I have been studying and investigating the Origins of Demons,Demonic activity claims,Possesions,Types of Demonic activity including Demons verses religion..I have heard lectures on the subject.I have studied the claims of demonic possesion in other countries and cultures. The removal of demonics, Symptoms of Possesed or oppressed. Demon writing,photos,worship,Magicks,The connection between divination tools such as ouija boards. The removal of demons.
I have studied many religions that welcome possesion like Voodoo.I have also studied Demons in the bible, I have about 23 yrs of experiance and study gatherd. I personally think TV shows like Paranormal state when they claim people like Lorraine Warren is a Demonologist or a Pastor to be a demonologist is insulting the research that people have actually put in. Just cause you can preform a exorcist or have have the "book" doesnt make you a Demonologist in my mind. Sadly there is no set distinction on demonology. I also have seen a rise in people claiming to be possesed. Soon after the Paranormal state released episode "I am Six".episode "I seen nothing to determin this girl was in fact possesed". I have had people contact me and argue the fact they are possesed. I will try to help anyone who claims to have experianced demonic activity and give suggestions. So should everyone else. IMO
Dont be shy people are asking for help not qualifications or a resume. Alot of the time these people are just frightened or freaked out and need to be comforted and listened to. If you see the possiblity in debunking throw it out there keep an open mind and try and see it from the Op's point of view and remember that it might be a child/teen. Do not let your religion or personal beliefs set the energy but what the OP is saying. Try and eleminate all possiblitys. Suggest that the person gets a paranormal investigator or even something that might comfort them like a cross under there pillow or burning some sage.
Most important do not fan the flames. Instead try to calm the OP down. If that doesnt work ask him to go to somewhere safe to meditate maybe a church or friends home? Try to give the OP as much comfort and advise as possible. Most Demonic claims can be debunked or helped by any investigator or anyone who can logically look at a situation and provide comfort. Do not sell yourself short there alot of really good people here that is very helpful and knowledgable and that can help out in just about any situation that might rise on a paranormal board.
Blessed be.

---

(01-30-2010 09:10 PM)Harry1941 Wrote:  "Demons" means evil cravings that come from materialistic loves. This is because in hell, anyone who has these cravings is called a demon. People in this world who have these cravings also become demons after death. Further, there is a connection between demons and these kinds of people; for we are all connected with spirits as to our emotions--so much so that they make one. From this we can see that worshiping demons means indulging in these cravings because we love them.

Harry

That is true and not demons to everyone might mean something different. usually Demonics are thought of as Fallen ones. and should be understood when people have claims of demonic activity this is usually what they are thinking about. So to them Demons are different then what you think they are. So should be dealt with in a understanding of what the person believes and a respect for them and there beliefs.
When you are trying to help someone you should approach by what they think or believe that way you astablish an understanding and better communication and understanding.

[snapdragon928]

GM I think you give sound advise on the demonic front here. Neurological problems were mentioned here, like tourettes. I have a tourette like syndrome and when the swearing tics came on real bad, my husband considered the fact that demonic activity could be at play, due to the convenient time when it would start sometimes when doing bible study. Tourettes can be badly misunderstood. It was simply the disorder, nothing else, of course. These neurological, physical, mental issues should be explored before demon activity is suspected.

[GypsyMoon]

Thank you Snap, I have seen tourettes up close and personal its very frusterating to see the Brain actually know when the most improper time is to actually go off and get worse during lectures,Bible studies,Public places and events then the subject really not seeing alot of activity when home with family or friends you feel comfortable with.
Thank you for sharing this with others and maybe help people understand this illness for what it is and remove all misinformation about this.
I think there has been a growing fad of late. of just people in general claiming to be possessed or family members claiming love ones to be possessed.
I think its easier for people to just blaime the Devil.
TV has made people claiming to be possessed bit of celebrities, I think people like Ryan Buell who started with good intentions now is punished by there production companies to keep ratings up and visual intrest and to have honest competition with the new blood investigators on TV.
So everyone is trying to step up in provoking,possessions,claiming hauntings.who can get the better EVP or video. So now we all look like idiots.
Bottom line is atm possession sells the "episode I am six" from Paranormal state was one of the most watched reality paranormal episode ever.
Sadly the girl Laura gets to believe she is possessed and not face the fact she has mental problems that needs to be addressed by the entire family.
She has now become a celeb people writing to her trying to contact her Ryan Buell was more noticed for this then any other case. Production companies is trying to get the next "I am six" Lorraine Warren jumped on the ban wagon saying Laura had the demonics "Legion" "Gerasene Demon from the Bible" in her.
Completly unaware of the damage these people was doing and to make it worse they went back again for more ratings. Having Chip Coffey sit across from her blessing himself with medalions while they proformed yet another exorcism on this poor girl. This is what makes our job difficult. Greed for Ratings and approval from reality TV shows.
In saying this I dont feel like I am talking badly about the program in general I am sure Ryan in his own way helped alot of people and knows right from wrong I just wish he would have stepped up more during this case.

[Black Shuck]

Note the Graveyard Hound comment above, same person as me,but I have concluded that unless one is a "demonologist" or just well versed on the topic, passing out free advice about anything "demonic" is "not-good" as opposed to "good-good" ,unless prefaced with, "my opinion",etc., etc.,. I do love this topic. Never has sooo much been done by so many with so little.