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Chazz · 12-11-2009, 10:13 AM

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Hey guys and gals... forgive my jambalaya of words and questions...

You have some people who believe poltergeists are spirit-entities..

You have other people that believe that poltergeists are somehow linked to people and telekinesis...(i.e. adolescents, menopausal people etc etc)

Could a third classification be that it could possibly be a spirit entity and a person i.e. this adolescent with issues or this menopausal person together with a spirit entity somehow giving this spirit entity more power/energy by the adolescent/menopausal's persons anger/issues (by use of telekinesis)???

If a poltergeist is somehow "created" by telekinesis by adolescent/menopausal person... does this person believe that such entity is real? I would think so at least in their minds... If this person "created" this poltergeist how would this person mentally/psycologically create a "death" of this poltergeist? Would it just one day be gone???

.... not everything is paranormal... but the more I learn.. the less i know...

**scarygirl67** · 12-11-2009, 10:32 AM

I've thought that before too, Chazz...I do think there is more than one explanation for poltergeist activity...and one of the things I've thought has been that the hormonal energy is like a magnet for spirit activity.

It is something to think about...thanks for bringing it up.

Browncoat · 12-11-2009, 10:41 AM

Well, the debate about poltergeists is really difficult to put an end to. Where do you draw the line at a ghost who makes a noise and you just don't see a manifestation, and a straight poltergeist?

Personally, I tend to lean toward a person being the focus of poltergeists and the phenomena having no actual spirit activity involved. I'm not saying this is always the case (I certainly think that if the poltergeist exhibits an intelligence of it's own, presenting information in some form that no one in the residence would know, then the chances of it being telekinesis are slim) but I think that the vast majority of cases can be explained this way.

I think the best evidence of this came from the experiments involving Philip. If you're not familiar with this, a scientific group "invented" a ghost named Philip (made up a name a fabricated a story) and had a volunteer group try to contact him. Eventually the contacting group got this non-existent spirit to repeatedly produce knocks and even levitate a table on several occasions. This was done under fairly strict conditions and the experiment was replicated at least 2 other times with different people and produced the same result.

Given this story, I tend to think that if a group of average people can focus and produce poltergeist like activity when they come together in a common belief, then I think that "gifted" people could do it unwittingly on their own. I think that these events could be triggered by a great number of things, but personal turmoil has enough anecdotal evidence in it's corner to be a likely cause.

**scarygirl67** · (This post was last modified: 12-11-2009 10:50 AM by scarygirl67.)

I remember hearing about that experiment, Browncoat...excellent example of what our own minds can create.

Chazz · 12-11-2009, 10:57 AM

(i dont want to go off the topic here ...) hmmm but did the group create ... or was there "something" else that impersonated Philip lol? kind of like a Ouija board experiment calling for granny and some other foulmouthed evil dude comes through ?

so back to the topic.....

I just wonder how such a person, once they created the poltergeist.. "kills it".. what would the process be in their minds?

Browncoat · 12-11-2009, 11:09 AM

(12-11-2009 10:57 AM)Chazz Wrote: (i dont want to go off the topic here ...) hmmm but did the group create ... or was there "something" else that impersonated Philip lol? kind of like a Ouija board experiment calling for granny and some other foulmouthed evil dude comes through ?

Well, the group tried a standard seance the way we would perform them today (passively sitting around a table) and got no results. They then began trying seances as they would have been held during the height of the spiritualist movement involving singing and genuine excitement and that's when Philip would "manifest". The interesting thing to note is that when they would question Philip and get him to respond to through knocking, Philip would only ever answer with assertiveness about things that were established in the story the group was given. If they group asked Philip about things that were not in the story (and thus the group may disagree upon) Philip would never give an assertive answer. Which tends to indicate that it was not something of individual intelligence, and instead a form of collected consciousness from the group as a whole.

(12-11-2009 10:57 AM)Chazz Wrote: I just wonder how such a person, once they created the poltergeist.. "kills it".. what would the process be in their minds?

Well if it's created by a person, then it wouldn't be killed, it would just stop. The minute the stresser is removed from the person, the side effects will begin to fade away. Think about a person who is allergic to cats. When around a cat, they may break out in a rash. But, remove the cat (and it's hair and dander) and the symptoms will fade.

If the person is telekinetically creating a poltergeist because of some stress (making it an unconscious reaction) than when whatever agent is causing the reaction is removed, the mind will cease to react in a fashion that creates the ghost (just like when the cat is removed and the rash goes away). This can take days or even weeks, but eventually it should just fade on it's own (like the rash).

Chazz · (This post was last modified: 12-11-2009 11:46 AM by Chazz.)

Browncoat..I like your explanation, would it be plausable to speculate... for such a person to telekenetically "create" another entity.. i.e from Poltergeist to apparition sending a particular message to one particular person?

I would hesitate a yes, but how do I connect the dots here.. telekinesis ->poltergeist->new entity-> particular messages to one person-> possible mental problems/instability/stressors->the paranormal-> the normal ...? Could I be so "forward" to speculate and say that there might be something mentally unstable with such a person.. but what I dont then understand is what you typed regarding the unconscious reaction... where does all of this fit in?

Browncoat · 12-11-2009, 12:03 PM

(12-11-2009 11:44 AM)Chazz Wrote: Browncoat..I like your explanation, would it be plausable to speculate... for such a person to telekenetically "create" another entity.. i.e from Poltergeist to apparition sending a particular message to one particular person?

I would hesitate a yes, but how do I connect the dots here.. telekinesis ->poltergeist->new entity-> particular messages to one person-> possible mental problems/instability/stressors->the paranormal-> the normal ...? Could I be so "forward" to speculate and say that there might be something mentally unstable with such a person.. but what I dont then understand is what you typed regarding the unconscious reaction... where does all of this fit in?

The way I see it...

Everyone theoretically has telekinetic ability. In most people (and I mean almost everyone) it is either entirely dormant and/or very weak. I think that for these people, they have no conscious way of activating this ability. They can not will it to happen, like moving their arm. It has to be "tricked" into occurring, and even then is likely too weak to measure. This would explain something like Philip- a group of people awakened their weak abilities and together unconsciously combined these weak forces into one strong enough to be documented.

Now, in poltergeist activity, you would tend to have someone who has a stronger telekinetic ability. This maybe natural or it may be something amped up by hormones (since so much of the time it focuses on a teen going through puberty). This person, like most others, is completely unaware of their ability, and thus has no conscious means of using it.

However when the person is put under some kind of stress (literal or figurative) they unconsciously activate this ability. Again, it is likely a product of body chemistry that is activating it, and not anything that the person is actively or consciously doing. Their body is merely having a reaction to whatever is placing a stress on the person.

I go back to my allergy analogy.

If you are allergic to cats. Your body is immediately placed under stress when you get around cats. Unconsciously your body begins to react producing histamine, producing a rash, inducing a cough, etc. You can;t control it, and you are not responsible for what is happening. However, in the case of a poltergeist, instead of breaking out in a rash as a reaction to a stresser, a dormant part of the human mind becomes active thanks in part to chemicals the body produces in reaction to the situation. The owner of the brain is completely unaware of whats going on, and can not stop it. If they got away from the situation, as with the cat, the activity would likely fade away and eventually end (but they would have to know what is stressing them and actually remove it from their life).

Does that make sense? I'm sorry if I'm poor at explaining this. It is simply how it all makes sense to me. I'm not a parapsychologist... I just read a lot about this sort of thing and it all just kind of adds up in my head.