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Do you think the bible is real?
#21
I think some of it is very loosely based on true events, alot of it is just made up stories, and some morality tales. It's a known fact that large chunks were cut out of it (many of those chunks have been found) so that it can follow the direction the church wants. It's also known to be full of imbellishments of true events and be contradictory to itself in some places.
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#22
I fully agree with you bracket.I don't think I could've worded it better.I struggled trying to come up with the right words to try to explain what I was saying but you really nailed it.Thanks.
"These are the darkest clouds that have surrounded me"-Within Temptation
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#23
I find that funny coming from someone with a name and avatar like yours.
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#24
You know Bracket....since I really don't know my whole Bible (seriously)...it doesn't bother me that there are chunks missing. I never needed the written word to believe. Although now God wants me to learn his words...known and hidden. There is a power in the knowledge and a power in knowing the word when it comes to others. Personally I don't need it....God wrote his laws and truth on my heart long ago....and the little he enlightened me with was all I needed to save my soul....and to comfort me in his existence. My walk with God is truly based on blind faith. To me that is what makes it so special. When I read the actual word of God that backs up an experience or an intuitive God given thought...my faith is stronger for it. I have enough common sense to know the Bible was written by man...but inspired by God and man's inconsistenacies...inabilities...faults...etc....are incorporated into that written word. If God wanted a perfect manuscript he would have come down and wrote it matter of factly himself. It is supposed to be this way. Questionable. It is supposed to test your faith...your inner core. Do any of you really think God wants a bunch of zombies...or slaves...or idiots loving him? I mean...would you? OR would want someone who cared about you more than they cared about theirself? Wouldn't you rather be around the selfless individuals...those who understood pain rather than those that cause it? Think about it....THINK....
"Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." Ephesians 6:11
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#25
Warrior

I could never have blind faith, to tell you the truth. When i was younger, i did alot of searching and i came to the conclusion that i don't believe in religion. I've talked to people who believe in a particular belief and asked them how they know their religion is right and the best answers i got were "i just know" or "because my book says so". I'm willing to believe there is a higher power but i personally think that every religion has it completely wrong (no offense).
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#26
Quote:If God wanted a perfect manuscript he would have come down and wrote it matter of factly himself. It is supposed to be this way. Questionable. It is supposed to test your faith...your inner core.

This view is not what is commonly held among church leaders. Especially in the Roman Catholic faith, the Bible is the written word of God. To say that the contradictions in the Bible are meant to "test your faith" is pretty contraversial.

Personally, I find theat the "test your faith" option is quite common among people of faith, when faced with contradictions or conundrums found within the ancient texts used as a basis for the religion.

Quote:Do any of you really think God wants a bunch of zombies...or slaves...or idiots loving him? I mean...would you? OR would want someone who cared about you more than they cared about theirself? Wouldn't you rather be around the selfless individuals...those who understood pain rather than those that cause it? Think about it....THINK....

Now, this is where I begin to have real issues with organised religions. I was under the impression that God/Jesus wanted EVERYBODY to be "saved" ... that would include zombies, slaves and idiots. This appears to represent an elitist god who only wants to associate with people who give him the appropriate respect.

What about people who are born into utter poverty? They may not even get educated in order to even read the Bible. People are born into circumstances where they spend every living moment in search of food/shelter, and never have a chance to even think about their faith. Do they subsequently get no love from God?

Personally, I believe that much of the old testament presents a god that DOES want unthinking, unquestioning slaves ... "thou shalt have no other Gods but me".

The Christian church does not actively promote the kind of free-thinking you are suggesting here as your personal belief - don't get me wrong, I applaud your liberal approach, but the institution of the church does not actively follow this. At least, the Roman Catholic church in Ireland does not.
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#27
Thank you drblow. Again, you have brought up very good points. What you say is the very reason I have had problems with churches. Catholic or not, they seem to be out for themselves. I have always taken my comfort in God.................not any church that I've found. I ask far too many questions, and have generally aggravated any minister that I've come in contact. I'm not Catholic, so I've never spoken with a priest.........but I'd probably aggravate that Church as well.

The ministers that I've talked to about the point you made........people that were never able to learn about the Bible..... usually say that there is an "age of accountability". This is why the Protestant sects of Christianity don't believe in infant baptism. Supposedly, there is an age where one should be able to make the choice for themselves. I could never really get anyone to pin down what that age is supposed to be, I'm guessing it's the age that a child begins to understand the Bible and what it means. But when I would ask about people who had never had the opportunity to learn the Bible for their entire life...........that's when I would start to get the runaround.

When I look at the Bible, I see a lot of symbolism. I don't take it in a literal context. Jesus said that the laws of the Old Testament were the laws of yesterday.........when He came, He came to change the laws. This is why it says "an eye for an eye" in the Old Testament and "turn the other cheek" in the new.

I still have many questions.........I just don't see myself going to a church to find the answers. Too much judgement from the people there turns me off immediately.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ~Philip K. Dick

http://paranormalinreview2.zohosites.com/home.html

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#28
drblow....what I meant by the slaves, idiots, etc....was this. God wants people to love him for who he is not because it is commanded so. Sure I can tell my children that have to love me and us the Bible abusively and say "God said to honor thy mother and father"...but then I would have a relationship based on fear rather than love. Sometimes I am not very good at expressing myself. Especially at 3:43 am. Also...my beliefs are quite controversial at times. I don't really like mainstream religion. I was just discussing with my husband yesterday how the catholic church in europe thinks the baptist are a cult and some baptists think the catholics are a cult. Baptists believe mormans and Jehova witnesses are cults. Lutheran, Methodist, Penocostle, Christian....and the list goes on of other Christian based churches. They all have various traditions...some of which really aren't necessary....JMO I love to go and here a good sermon....and often listen to them on TV or youtube. Its the people in the churches that I have a problem with most of the time.

Bracket....I think every religion has a part of it right...but I like you (or not ?) think that no one church has it completely correct. Again...JMO.

drblow....yes God does want everybody saved....but you have to want it. Being forced to do something does not mean you want it...and only God knows our hearts and knows if we want it. That is where thought comes in. Sorry if it came across wrong the first time.

Scary the baptist think that age is 12. Personally I think its the age where you know the difference between right and wrong. There are some people that are born with disabilities that may never reach the age of accountability. Yes this is why children are not baptized as babies in the Baptist Church....but they can be dedicated up to the age of 3. Still that is the parent's wishes....the child can change their mind as an adult. I was baptized when I was 8 and many people in the church were angry about because I was "too young" to know about Jesus...but I wasn't. This is what I mean about the silly traditions. The Christian church believes that if you dedicate your life to Christ in the morning...but are not scheduled to be baptized before the evening and die in a car crash inbetween then you don't go to heaven. I think a load of c***. Then there are other religions that believe if your not baptized as a child and you die you don't go to heaven. Good grief....you know even I don't think God is that mean.

Bracket....I see why religion turns you off...really. Personally I don't need religion to believe in God and Jesus....but I don't think that is true for everyone. I do walk by blind Faith...because I have personally had so many beautiful experiences that I can't ignore. The bible not being burnt in the fire is one really good example.
One more thing drblow....I feel nothing but compassion for people born into poverty. I actually am friends with a homeless addicts. No I think God loves them as well. I think God speaks directly to them...to their very soul. I would be surprised if a homeless person told me they never had a spiritual experience of some sort. JMO...but I think God finds a way to reach everyone...which is why the Bible is not always needed. Next I would like to say that this is another thing that angers me about churches.....they spend too much time gathering together socially when they should be out reaching out to those that have not heard about God. I posted the 10 commanments at my office for this very reason and have a bible in the waiting area. I don't push it down anyone's throat and sometimes...just a little hint can go along way.
"Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." Ephesians 6:11
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#29
Warrior

Well, that's not really blind faith if you've had experiences. You've had things happen that prove to you personally that you're right.
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#30
Bracket u pretty much said what I would have...this is how I believe it...
But still I'm really confused about the bible -- and I did go to a catholic school thru out my life and it was taught every year till I graduated from Highschool. Now my hubby truly believes gods an alien....??? He thinks our Gods are out in space somewhere. Somewhere we will never reach..




(07-24-2009, 07:42 PM)Bracket Wrote: I think some of it is very loosely based on true events, alot of it is just made up stories, and some morality tales. It's a known fact that large chunks were cut out of it (many of those chunks have been found) so that it can follow the direction the church wants. It's also known to be full of imbellishments of true events and be contradictory to itself in some places.
"I'm extraordinarily patient provided i get my way in the end." -Margaret Thatcher
"A girl should be two things: classy and fabulous." -Coco Chanel...

Taz
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