Irrefutable Proof God Doesn't Exist

[UglyNRude]

According to many its ok to make claims and then not prove it. I am surprised people ask for proof. Its ok to hold discussions about it but according to many on here we shouldn't call out those who make claims of proof. So with this new wonderful thinking we can take steps backwards. I can make claims like this without proving it.

I have no problem when people say they experienced ghosts or demons and this is what helps this forum move forwards. We can discuss it and offer other possibilities. What I do have a problem with is when a person keeps making claims they have evidence, proof through months of study then refuse to share it. Even when they are offered to do it privately. THAT is what can destroy a forum. Can you imagine all the CLAIMS I can now state I have proof of and don't need to prove it. You can do one of a few things, think I'm full of it, looking for attention or believe me and put me on a pedestal.

What should you do? Question every claim made, seek your own answers.

Now so those that want to see proof you can read this. Is it proof? Once again only you can decide.
http://godisimaginary.com/index.htm

[scarygirl67]

I think that's the rub right there...the phrase "I have proof". Because let's face it folks..none of us have proof. It's what many of us are still looking for as validation.

I personally do not need proof to believe in the paranormal. What I want to achieve in finding that proof is understanding. I don't understand what it is that I think I have seen. But I have no problem sharing my experiences here..I never have. I have never been forced to produce proof of what I have experienced, because it is just that..an experience.

But it is another matter altogether when someone claims "proof"...and I agree, that takes a few steps backward.

Interesting thread, UNR...and point taken.

[beauseant]

well this is getting frustrating. UNR, you are way off the mark, and because you are a long time forum member, others are turning their heads and pretending not to notice that what you are doing is in fact calling out certain members and intimidating them. NOW you are trying to make those of us who believe that you are too heavy handed seem as if we were illogical and gullible fantasy mongers.

WELL>>>>> lets dissect the situation that started all this. YOU said celtic said she had proof demons exist. FIND that claim for me in her original post on the other thread>
I have provided that post for you

Quote:SG, Blessings on you and your daughter. It takes a special person to receive a child from the Universe that is different then the "norm". I have one as well. I worked with many over the years in my school.

I think general fear as well as ignorance is and has been a major cause with humans all the way back in time to point the finger and make all kinds of accusations. Lack of understanding to the cause of unusual responses and acting has given way to much barbaric "treatments" of people all through history. Then came the age of movies and TV. They capitalized on these fears and strange situations and made them big-time public. So now everyone has a name for, cause or treatment for anything that is different or out of the "norm". Look at the different cultures. If you dont look and act and think like a certain group, you cannot be part of that group. There may even be very cruel attitudes to another who they think is different or "sick". Having been head of a school I saw it every day with "normal" children who took it upon themselves to decide who was and who wasn't acceptable in their little societies. And they were cruel!

To jump at labeling something as a demonic possession in this day and age is partly due to the hysteria of Hollywood. They create the "pee your pants scary experience" that everyone seems to love and also make it seem commonplace to people that there are numerous Demon possessions, that they are a dime a dozen. That isnt the case and shame on Hollywood and shame on people who take that on as a belief or truth.

That said, I know of Demonic possession. It is not a common thing. I have experienced it and combated it. (and Yes, this was after all potential medical testing and psychological issues had been pursued at major institutions). The female did not have any mental illness. She had been in a situation earlier in life, with her parents, at a known religious group, they put onto her a demon, (for want of an easier explanation)... because of non cooperation from the parents to said group. It followed and grew with her over a 10 yr period. The family was forced to move many times to no avail and people from that religious group were seen standing watch at the new locations. It was a very intense situation. I have also been "attacked" by extremely evil, very powerful energy, in front of and with about 15 people, while doing a program of Spiritual communication. 8 of the people ran down 2 blocks away to leave the situation. They were in such fear of what was happening. (Ironically, this happened in front of a Catholic church).

So, needless to say, I believe in demonic possession, demons, and evil from several first hand experiences, as well as Spiritual entities and "godly" things from many many experiences. I spend much more of my time with the White Light energies than the dark light. Only when I am called upon to do so would I seek the negative to combat it.

Show me where you take exception with her post. I see a person telling of their experiences, yes, experiences...and stating their beliefs. I do NOT see her being aggressive or high handed to anyone. THAT is what I take exception to. SHE DID NOT STATE THAT SHE HAD PROOF OF ANY SORT. She spoke only of the woman having been tested for medical and psychological issues. It is not celtic's place to divulge that information as it was not done to her, rather to someone else. When speaking of herself personally she states she has combatted and that is her telling of her experience...you cannot prove she hasn't and she can't prove she has. SO, moving on..... she states that she believes in demonic possession. Ok, that is her belief. A belief cannot be proven, so she can't prove demons exist....and YOU are still unable to prove they don't.

Does anyone get MY POINT???? NOTHING can be proven. So WHY was she called out like that and intimidated into not replying??? WHERE does anyone find her claiming "I HAVE PROOF"????? Find it for me because I cannot.....Her claims regarding this other woman only state that this woman was tested. Ok. Even if she WERE to provide names, dates, institutions..is THAT proof? Not in my book. It still proves nothing. What if celtic said that Dr. James Rosen from Columbia University in Chicago Illinois did the psychological testing on May 22, 1998 on the third floor of a building built in 1947 of brick and sandstone at 3 pm on a thursday afternoon during a sunny day with temperatures in the low 70's three days before his daughter's 7th birthday......does THAT PROVE ANYTHING???

POINT: even if she provided many minute details of this testing/institutions, it STILL DOES NOT CONSTITUTE PROOF

SECOND POINT: she did not claim I HAVE PROOF, she only spoke of her experiences and beliefs.

THIRD POINT: being a long time friend of this forum and it's mods does not excuse intimidating the members. A person can be a friend, well respected and liked, and still be overstepping their bounds. And should be told so. Else this forum will eventually consist of only UNR and those who agree with him, and that is going to make for a very boring forum. Because if everyone agrees on an issue, there is nothing to talk about and debate. And all anyone ends up saying is "I agree with you". In other words, when people do not feel free to state their beliefs and experiences, they go elsewhere...and all that is left is a clique of those who think and feel the same. And THAT is boring.

Enough said. I will defend celtic, because IMO she did or said NOTHING wrong, and did not deserve the flak she received.

And I am disappointed that friendship blinds one to fairness.

[scarygirl67]

First off, it was not UNR that took exception, it was another member. Second,he was simply stating that he too, has asked for backup if someone claims proof of something..not for someone to prove an experience. The issue between the two other members had been going on for some time and I didn't really want that thread to get derailed into that issue..which it did anyway.

The reason that the other thread got addressed was because that was not what the issue was about...and I didn't want it to turn into a thread to call someone out. It was kept going by several members, and their voices were heard on all sides. How is that not fair?

[beauseant]

(04-23-2011 08:01 AM)scarygirl67 Wrote:  First off, it was not UNR that took exception, it was another member. Second,he was simply stating that he too, has asked for backup if someone claims proof of something..not for someone to prove an experience. The issue between the two other members had been going on for some time and I didn't really want that thread to get derailed into that issue..which it did anyway.

The reason that the other thread got addressed was because that was not what the issue was about...and I didn't want it to turn into a thread to call someone out. It was kept going by several members, and their voices were heard on all sides. How is that not fair?

Because SG, celtic did not claim proof in her post. How is it fair to demand someone provide proof when they never claimed they had proof in this post

I provided her original post, where did she claim proof?

[scarygirl67]

Which is why I tried to get the subject back on topic. I agree with you there...as I said the issue between the two other members had been going on in other threads and I didn't want it to be part of that one. It became so anyway..because of all other voices that spoke on the subject. All of those voices were heard.

Edit to add: I can't get the quote thingie to work so here is a copy and paste of my post at this thread: http://www.talkparanormal.com/thread-10981-page-3.html

"I would like to say that I appreciate everyone's opinions on the subject of ignorance being a demon in and of itself. That being said...I don't want it to turn into something that calls a specific person out for scrutiny. I think this thread has the potential to educate..there have been a lot of really good posts on here, and it does show that there are many people on this forum that do not listen to every case of possession and believe that it is a demon. But I don't want it to turn into an argument about whose research will improve whose standing on the forum. My experience with those kind of arguments is that they turn into flame wars..which don't fly here at TP.

I will add that if claims are going to be made, and there is nothing to back them up..it leaves it open for these kinds of questions. I'm proud to say there are a great deal of educated minds here at the forum, and a lot of people that are genuinely looking for the truth. This does mean that claims will be questioned. I just don't want the purpose of this thread (which is to discuss and learn) to derail into a "who's right/who's wrong".

[beauseant]

well, thank you for clarifying the ongoing issue between the two members thing. I've been gone for quite a while and wasn't aware of any personal conflict.

And taken at face value, DBs reply to celtic was very "off".

I understand people sometimes have conflicts, and that these tend to be ongoing..... I am hoping that celtic and DB can put aside past negative discussions and walk forward on a more positive note.

Celtic seems to have done so, per her non aggressive post and i hope she continues to post her experiences here. I am newly returned, and I would very much like to hear them, hers and others.

[WitchMom78]

Hence why the "take it to PM" comment was made. It was directed at EVERYONE envolved.

If there is a need to call someone out on a post, it doesn't need to be done on the open forum. UNLESS, it is an honest and genuine question regarding the OT. Other then that.....threads getting hijacked will get us nor the forum anywhere.

Normally I am the quiet moderator but if anyone has a problem with anyones post (considering there has been alot of that lately) and if you (members in general) really feel the need to speak up and say something, PM the member directly. If anyone doesn't feel comfortable you can always contact any member of the staff and we will review the thread. That is why we have the report post funtions!

Ok...Now, can we get back to the topics please

*taking off mod cape*

[WitchMom78]

I forgot to add that if this continues, I will start pulling posts and/or whole topics if I need to.

This public service announcement was brought to you by the letters W and M and the numbers 7 and 8

[UglyNRude]

I will say I will always call out a person that makes a claim they have PROOF if this forum wants to be all believers I have no problem getting banned.