Beliefs How far is to far?

[UglyNRude]

Sponsor Messages

Everyone has beliefs but how far will you take yours? Do you believe everything? of course not but where do YOU draw the line?

Do you believe in God?
Do you believe in Jesus?
Do you believe in Demons?
Do you believe in faith healing?
Do you believe in exorcists?

What does it take to make you believe?
If a person claimed to be Jesus and had a large following would you believe? How about if they have followers in over 30 countries?
How far is to far?

What about a faith healer / exorcist who claims he can heal a young autistic boy with mental retardation who is non verbal? He makes claims he can remove the demon from this young boy and put his spirit back in his body and cure him. So how far will you believe?

Belief is a wonderful thing but how far is to far?

---

When investigating paranormal don't rely on assumptions, base your decisions on evidence.

[Fiona]

Quote:What about a faith healer / exorcist who claims he can heal a young autistic boy with mental retardation who is non verbal? He makes claims he can remove the demon from this young boy and put his spirit back in his body and cure him

I think this quote illustrates perfectly how far is 'too far.'

I am somebody who does believe in God - and along with beliving in Him I believe in angels/demons.

However, I think people who have completely failed to grasp what demons are and what possession is really taint this belief system.
An exorcist claiming that a boy who has autism must have a demon is making my belief system ugly and a joke.
Anybody who really understands mental illness and other illness such as autism know that it has nothing to do with possession.

There is a line that shouldn't be crossed; there are "accepted" forms of possesson symptoms (amongst those who believe) - but making wild claims such as autism is the result of demonic activity? THAT is what is too far.

I know that people can often be too quick to point to demons and to blame them for all the negative ongoings in our world- and I agree that it can get ridiculous. Hopefully not all of us who believe that demons and possession are real will not be tainted with the same brush as the faith healer/exoricst UglyNRude has mentioned. Some of us believe in these things and still retain intelligence and common sense!

[Haunted Lady]

It's too far when you are hurting people in the process of your own beliefs and hindering others personal growth, healing, or right to choose what they believe.

Any responsible faith healer will tell you that healing happens in a number of ways; immediate, over time, through the spirit of acceptance and the will to overcome, and then finally with the ultimate in healing...through death. Healing has many facets and I have no doubt that we are always healed, just not in the dramatic ways of the head smacking TV envangelist that then asks you to write them a check.

My religious beliefs are more complicated than just God, Jesus, angels and demons though. I think the bible is a valuable historical source tool...if you want to get in depth we will need more bandwidth here. The thing is though that my broad based belief system is built upon a culmination of education, experience and research of many cultures and religions. One just doesn't fit with me. Nearly every faith and doctrine has valuable teachings, it's up to you to figure out which one lines up with your understanding of the Creator and the universe around us.

Do I believe in excorcists? That's a tough one. Though I do believe in demons I think that possession is a very, very rare thing indeed and that an awful lot of factors need to be considered before any one screams demon or tells someone they have a demon inside them. You want to screw someone up? Tell them they are possessed and that should about do the trick. Unfortunately we have alot of internet certified excorcists out there that are doing this very thing. If I had to state just how many 'real excorcists' trained and sanctioned by the church we might need out there...I'd say maybe a dozen at most, just to be prepared and that's worldwide. Sure we need them...but do we need a hundred in every town? Hell no!

Unbelief is a wonderful thing too...so how far is is too far for the unbeliever? I reiterate; It's too far when you are hurting people in the process of your own beliefs and hindering others personal growth, healing, or right to choose what they believe.

[scarygirl67]

Some very good responses to some very good questions.

I believe in God. I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I believe in demons, but I think they are more of the human variety..in other words, I think people create most of their own demons and continue to feed them. With faith healing..I believe in the power of faith to heal. I believe that exorcism is something that is rarely needed and yet it is constantly advertised.

I believe in a lot of the concepts that you mentioned UNR..however, I have very little faith in the human beings that represent most of those concepts. I also know that my beliefs are subject to change..and therein lies the rub, as Shakespeare would say. When you can't accept that your belief is just that..a BELIEF...then it has been taken too far in my opinion. Always be open to change or at least open to other ideas.

Fiona, what you said about the example of the autistic boy was dead on. For CENTURIES, these afflictions were determined to be demonically induced. The fact that there are people who still believe that sickens me.

[1TxLady]

My belief "system" is not so simplistic as the questions and has evolved over time and space to encompass many things...and is still evolving as I've not stopped learning, growing, and reaching. I am of the "what if" mindset versus the "it can't be" mindset. It isn't as simple as which came first, the chicken or the egg? It's more from where did matter come? Did it just happen to occur one day in this vast universe?

To address some of your questions more directly, though, I believe there are bona fide faith healers. I also believe, as with many walks of life, there are shysters and will always be shysters. I believe there are demons and angels but I believe there are a very few legitimate demonic possessions or true encounters with demons which are often mistaken for negative energy forms.

I do wonder how many people have been institutionalized wrongly because they have legitimate other worldly experiences for which they are then mentally "condemned" because of others disbelief in something more than what they can see, feel, touch, taste or experience in any other way.

I believe we get more than one shot at learning life's lessons to evolve to a higher plane of consciosness. That is a big public statement for me. For those who disagree, have at it but don't decry that which you have not experienced...simply disagree if you must.

I do wonder how many untold thousands are medicated because they experience life on different planes and dimensions that they cannot prove?

I believe that every person is entitled to medical care and that any religion that prohibits that is not based on God but on playing God. Harsh statement I know, but it's how I feel.

I do wonder what it must feel like to have no beliefs ..or as LK said unbelief.....beyond what one can see or document satisfactorily to some preset standard? Is there an emptiness there, a void that will never be filled... we are born, we die and therein is the end of a cycle.. move on? I think not. Not because I want to cling to a perceived midieval belief but because I know there is more. Does that same lack of belief permeate the energies around that person and manifest in some mocking demeanor to those with beliefs?

I do not believe something simply because someone says it is so or not so. Through education, common sense, not taking everything and everyone at face value, and not accepting every study just because someone's name is on it with some set of credentials helps guide my search for what is versus what others believe or don't believe.

[UglyNRude]

All excellent responses and yes I will say the healer/exorcist is a scam artist. Its 240.00 for 25 minutes. He can remove most demons in the length of that phone call. I wonder if 25 minutes is the time it takes to verify your credit card payment.

Now no one touched the part about the man claiming to be Jesus with the followers in over 30 countries. What would it take for you to believe? This person does exist so what would it take for you to believe someone is Jesus? Would you need to witness him yourself to believe? Could you believe someone is Jesus and living among us?

[scarygirl67]

Touche, UNR! Too true, none of us touched that one..to be honest, it would take a lot more for me to believe that someone was Jesus than a bunch of followers in however many countries.

What would it take? Miracles? No, those can be magic tricks. Healing? A lot of that could be the power of suggestion. Prophecies? No, it could be excellent human perception and cold readings.

If Jesus would come to Earth, I think most likely it would be in the form of a homeless person or someone with very little monetary means. No announcement, no trumpet, no press....nothing but an observer of humanity. It would be interesting to see how many people would walk right by Jesus and not even realize it. Who would give food? Who would give a kind word? And who would walk right by hoping that the "vagrant" didn't follow them?

I'm not going to believe a human being that claims to be Jesus. I'm going to look for human beings who live the way Jesus taught. Considering the world today..that narrows it down quite a bit.

[Haunted Lady]

Some of us more radical and rebellious believers believe that Jesus doesn't walk among us...he lives within us. People don't need to be notified of a second coming when he's already here.

I once asked God why He allows hunger, homelessness, despair, poverty and abuse. He responded by asking "Why do you?"

[1TxLady]

ohhhh you're referring to José Luis de Jesús Miranda ...a Puerto Rican national based in the United States and his organiztion is Ministerio Internacional Creciendo en Gracia (Growing in Grace International Ministry)...also known as “The Government of God on Earth”.

Let's see... he was a heroin addict at 14 and in prison for robbery after that....he's proclaimed himself The Other, The Man Jesus, and even the Antichrist. ...his followers believe he will silence Christians, Satan is dead and only a fabrication of the Vatican...the more money you give the more blessings you will recieve... tattoos of 666 or SSS...

http://repeatingislands.com/2010/04/08/c...followers/

Scary stuff UNR ....

Sadly there are and always have been religious extremists and again shysters....nothing new ...but how he has over 300,000 followers in 30 countries I do not know. Guess I better call the Blue Collar Comedy guys and request a new set of signs.

[scarygirl67]

Thank you much for that link, TxLady. And I tend to agree with LK's thoughts about the whole thing. I don't think it is going to be a person coming back claiming to be the Son of God. At any point.

So there is nothing any human being could do that would convince me that they are Jesus. Quite simply, if Jesus indeed did come back in human form....He wouldn't try to convince anyone of anything...JMO.